25 August 2008
TWIP Podcast #44 - One Hundred Million Cameras
Posted by
Scott under:
Audio Podcast
Episode 44 is in the feed or you can download the MP3 at Pixelcorps.TV.
UPDATE: We had some feed problems. For those of you who got the wrong show - try downloading it again from iTunes. The correct show is in the feed.
Hosts: Alex Lindsay
Guest: David Griffin, Director of Photography at National Geographic
Contributors: Scott Bourne, Aaron Mahler, Steve Simon
Locations: San Francisco, Gig Harbor
Intro Music by Scott Cannizzaro
Producer: Aaron Mahler - Twitter: halfpress
Show Notes Author: Tom Newman- Twitter: fogview
Bandwidth for This Week in Photography is provided by Cachefly.
TWIP is sponsored by Audible. For a free downloadable book visit www.audiblepodcast.com/twip
Don’t forget you can win a 10 item pack worth over a $1,000 by linking to us. Details on the Contest page at TWIPPHOTO.COM
NEWS & DISCUSSION
- Microsoft PhotoSynth Goes Live
- PhotoSynth allows you to take a bunch of photos from different cameras and taken by different people and it will pool the photos together and figure out where they are and build a 3D scene that you can tour through. Alex says it’s exciting to pool together images from the web and create these huge tourable things online. We had Bill Crow on the show and I (Alex) have been talking with for years about it so we’ve seen this progress and finally it’s out (on Windows — not Mac). Scott thinks the concept is beautiful but has a couple of questions: What is the final application for it and will people who are serious photographers want to participate because of obvious copyright issues (making your photos a part of other’s photos). Alex mentioned that you don’t need to be a professional photographer to use this. Alex mentioned one idea would be to send out a group of photographers to photograph an area and toss all the photos at PhotoSynth and create a tour. The question asked is can the results be copyrighted? Alex will be traveling for the next three weeks and plan to take a number of test cases.
- Microsoft in Flickr Rights Shock
- While on the topic of Microsoft, they held a contest in the UK prompting Windows Live Image Search. You win by finding the most quintessential “British” image - not by taking the photo, but by finding somebody else’s image online. This did not go over very well especially on Flickr where photos were pulled out of private (group) areas. Needless to say, people went pretty nuts about the rights issue. Nikon UK formally withdrew from the contest with a pretty cranky statement (they were going to be an award giver).
- Canon Ships 100 Millionth Digital Compact Camera
- A special color variation camera will be shipping to commemorate the event. Scott mentioned that these small compact cameras are allowed in places where DSLR and professional cameras are not (e.g. major league baseball games). At some point these cameras will be able to mimic the pictures from the bigger cameras (or use PhotSynth to create the professional image). Selling 100 millon cameras could mean more TWIP listeners. 
- Give your iPhone 3G a telephoto lens
- Goofy product from a Hong Kong company.
- 6x Zoom Telescope
- Alex “This is the iPhone version of putting all the big spoilers and crazy stuff on your Honda Accord …”
SITE OF THE WEEK
- Visions of China: Newsweek Olympic Photo Blog
- Scott’s pick because of his love of sports photography. He was staggered by this collection of Olympic photos. You also get an inside look because the photographers are writing blog posts there. Viewing the photos will inspire you to go out and shoot. “That moment in time that you may miss in video can be captured in photographs.” The site also gives you insight to what’s it’s like being a pro photographer covering a large event.
RUMORS OF THE WEEK
- Canon 50D Specs
- More “accidental” inventory listings of a forthcoming Canon 50D
- Rumored specs: 15.1 MP, DIGIC 4, ISO 100 - 12,800, 920,000 pixel 3-inch LCD Display
- Nikon Press Conference on August 27th
- Rumored it could be the D90 or D3S
- News will be building in the next few weeks before the Photokina Photo Show (Sept 23-28 in Germany)
FLICKR CHALLENGE & POLL
- Two Winners: This time three-week challenge: 8
- Winner: Jetty Web by JScullin
- Runner-Up: VIII by mattyb34
- Next two-week challenge topic: Circles
- Moving the challenge from Flickr to Photrade
- Our TWiP Flickr group is over 6,000 Members with over 3,000 in the TWiP Flickr Critique group.
Last poll results: What brand of printer do you use most?
- Epson - 41.6%
- Canon - 29.1%
- HP - 23.6%
- all the rest in the 0-2% range
The group discussed using outside sources for prints instead of using their own printers. Sometimes cheaper and less frustration to out-source the work. Scott still does his own printing. This may be a topic for a future TWIP.
New Poll: What OS do you use for your photography work?
- Apple OS 9
- Apple OS X
- Unix / Linux
- Windows XP
- Windows Vista
- Other
MAIN DISCUSSION - Interview with David Griffin, Director of Photography at National Geographic
- Interview prerecorded and conducted by Alex Lindsay and Steve Simon.
- How did you end up at National Geographic as the Directory of Photography? This is his second tour at Geographic. He started as a designer in 1989. Before that he was a photographer at the Philadelphia Inquirer and moved up to designer.
- What is “Design with Photography”: Working with photojournalism; knowing when to stop; allowing the photography to come forward. At the time the Geographic was a magazine of great photos but not of great design.
- The photographers are not just shooting but are involved in the entire process of getting the magazine published.
- How do you find photographers for National Geographic? It’s more of a challenge now because before (late 1970’s) there was a stepping-stone process where you started out at a small newspaper and worked your way up and got to a scene where the Geographic was the next logical step. That worked until newspapers stopped doing long-form documentary work. Now he has to be more active about it (finding photographers). “Everybody has one great photograph in them. But I’m not hiring people who take one great photograph.”
- With newspapers failing on hard times how is the magazine doing? “The publishing industry is stressed.” The newspaper are on the front lines of a sea-change of how people are gathering and viewing information. The magazine has seen their circulation drop but they have good advertising so they have been able to prop up the loss. The habits of how people are taking in information is changing. The days of going out and doing a shoot and coming back and producing only a magazine is over. You need to move that work into other forms: book, workshop, etc.
- The National Geographic’s web site seems to be geared towards the hobby photographer — how important is that group to the magazine and the future? The Geographic’s considers itself the leader in photography. It’s been great to watch the interest brought back to still photography because of digital photography . In the long run we have the best experts in the world about what is or isn’t a great photograph and make that available to people about their own photographs. This helps to drive traffic to a website.
- What do you look for that makes a great photograph? In story construction they are interested in telling a story. How do you take someone through a complex idea in a visible form. The Geographic sweet spot is when you strip out it’s photography, the National Geographic is a science magazine. Whether it planned too or not, it figured out a way to bring human dimension through photography to science. I’m looking for photographers who understand the content and bring it to life through photographs. At the highest level it makes an emotional connection to the reader.
- How is it that the still photograph has still maintained it communication power in a world of moving images, yet still survived? There was a study done about FlashBulb Memory in Florida .. still photography replicates the way your brain records emotional events in your life. Your brain slows down and captures the emotional event. You don’t want to remember a “segment” of the moment (as in video) but capture the exact moment (still photograph).
- How have you seen digital photography change the way your business works? There were those who said they would never go to digital but now the advantages are obvious and quality is no longer an issue. Geographics has always embraced technology. Three and one half years ago they were 20% digital and within one year they were 80% digital and that had to do with the improvement in sensors. The ability to take pictures in low light (bar light) made it take off. They still have 2 or 3 photographers who still shoot film and they are not forced to go digital. The amount that is shot on stories has double because of digital.
- They use their own content management system to manage the large volume of photographs. David uses Lightroom to manage his own personal photographs.
- What are you goals for the magazine under your tenure? First change was the first field photographer to become editor. He raised the bar for what standards were acceptable for the magazine. Open the place up and looking for photographers from different areas, like the fashion world who can treat objects as art. Bigger question is how do we survive in the future and produce the quality while being financially stressed.
- How are you integrating with the digital world (web)? We are just starting and a year into it. The magazine website needed some work to connect with the readers. He doesn’t want to capture the magazine on line, but the spirit of the magazine on line.
- What advice would you give to photography students who some day want to work for National Geographic? Pursue it, please! We can always use new photographers.
- What qualities do you see in good photographers? They have a zen-like ability to so easily take photographs … they can lock in on the creative flow and communicate it back to a regular person.
- More information about David Griffin
AUDIBLE PICK OF THE WEEK
- This week, Aaron’s suggestion:
- Author: Charles McCarry
- 16 Hrs, 13 Min, Unabridged
- From audible: “Charles McCarry has been called the best American espionage writer who ever lived. Now, with the re-release of his classic Paul Christopher series, comes The Last Supper, a tour-de-force that traces the evolution of the OSS and the CIA from the aftermath of World War I through World War II, Vietnam, and the Cold War.”
- Currently listening, but can attest to the first few hours thus far being quite enjoyable. McCarry’s style is different from that of Le Carre (nobody, in my opinion, beats Le Carre’s command of the language and wordcraft), but no less enjoyable.
- TWIP is sponsored by Audible. For a free downloadable book visit www.audiblepodcast.com/twip
LISTENER QUESTIONS
- Q: Listener, Steve Soper writes: I have a comment and a question related to your recent discussion about the limited future of APS-C sensors. I do a lot of sports photography using a Canon 40D and Canon 70-200 f2.8 (and a 1.4x extender when the light is sufficient). It seems to me the 1.6 multiplier effect provides a significant advantage. With a full frame sensor the 70-200 wouldn’t have much reach on a soccer field. Now for my question: I am seriously considering the purchase of the Canon 300mm f2.8. In the future, if I switch to a full frame sensor DSLR, will the 300 mm still have enough reach? And with the expected advances in ISO capability, is it worth the expense of the f2.8 (vs f4)?
- A: Scott answers: First to correct his assumption, with a full frame camera you do have the same reach, all you do is crop which is that’s happening when you use an APSC sensor.
Most serious sports photography is done using 400 mm lens and above, depending on the sport. … You can shoot with shorter lens if you have closer access. In covering motor sports there was very little use of a 300, it was all 400, 500, 600. If you can’t afford the real fast 400s and you are a Canon shooter, go with Canon 400 F5.6, that is a very sharp len and an amazing len for the cost and in the price range. The 300 F2.8 is nice but not enough reach. Scott would rather have a 400 F4 or F5.6.
Alex adds that you are getting more out of a faster lens than just light. You’re getting a shorter depth of field which often times can improve the focus of your image. The sweet spot is at a wider aperture which makes for better bokeh. Most people don’t realize that lens are not at their sharpest at either their widest open or stopped down, it’s somewhere between. So the lower you start the better off you are when it comes to the sweet stop. On a F2.8 len if will be at F5.6. Aaron mentions to look at Scott’s pick (website) because they talk about shots and the aperture and lens used. You can also look at the EXIF data on Flickr photos to get a sense for how the picture was shot (even on your own photos).
- Q: Listener, Brendan Coles writes: Hi TWiP gang. I’ve been thinking about purchasing a fisheye lens for a while now, but after listening to Alex talk about his newest lens purchase I decided to take the plunge and pick one up. I know you can use the lens to take 180 degree super-wide angle shots, but was wondering what software you would recommend to correct the lens distortion afterwards. I was also wondering if you had any tips for using the distortion that results from using the lens for taking creative/unusual shots… other than just taking close ups of people’s faces. Love the podcast, keep up the good work
- A: Scott answers: It depends. I actually like the barrel distortion myself in a lot of the photos because it gives them character. But if you want to correct them, most of the modern software tools like Aperture can do it. And there are specialized tools available. You can also buy rectilinear corrected lens if you have the money. They start around $1,500.
- Q: Listeners have been emailing Alex asking what camera bag he’s using so he decided to answer the question here.
- A: Kata DR-467. It holds his laptop and camera and the best bag he’s ever owned. It sells for about $60 to $70. He will do a video showing how he packs it for his trip and post it in the next couple of weeks.
TIP OF THE WEEK
- Scott provides this tip which also can be found on TWIPPHOTO.COM.
If you are going on a big shoot you may need storage backup. Newer iPods can be “disk mountable” and connected to your laptop and used for external storage. Most iPods with the 20 pin connector can also be used with an adapter that will download photos directly from some cameras.
WRAP-UP
- Scott can be found at http://twipphoto.com and http://aperturenatureworkshops.com
- Alex can be found at http://www.pixelcorps.com and http://www.pixelcorps.tv. Twitter: alexlindsay Alex would also like everyone to give This Week in Media a spin: http://pixelcorps.tv
- Steve Simon can be found at http://www.stevesimonphoto.com. Steve has a presentation at B&H Photo in New York, September 14, 2008.
- Aaron can be found on his blog (which is painfully in need of updates… soon) and via Twitter: halfpress
Send your thoughts, suggestions and questions to: twip at pixelcorps.com
Story ideas and other items of webly interest can be submitted via the TWiP Ideas Del.icio.us bookmarks
Share photos with your fellow TWiP listeners through the TWiP Flickr Feed
Submit your photos for “ruthless compassion” through our TWiP critiques forum.
27 Comments so far...
Robert Says:
26 August 2008 at 10:11 am.
Just listened to the podcast and just wanted to post a link to a video of Photosynth in action for people on a Mac or Linux. This is from last years TED conference - skip to around 2:40 to see Photosynth, although the demo before hand is worth watching.
http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/blaise_aguera_y_arcas_demos_photosynth.html
Mark Says:
26 August 2008 at 10:13 am.
The link on pixelcorp.tv (pixelcorps.cachefly.net/twip/twip_044_aud.mp3) doesn’t seem to work. I get can 43 to go but not this week’s.
Just thought I’d let you know.
Scott Says:
26 August 2008 at 10:21 am.
@Mark yes we’re working on it. For some reason the gremlins really hit us hard on this show. We had a server reboot and everything went nuts. Should be fixed soon.
Phil Says:
26 August 2008 at 10:26 am.
Great show this week guys. I searched for the iPhone lens, and that thing is goofy!
David Says:
26 August 2008 at 4:30 pm.
Listened to the show today…great as usual, just a few comments…
Photosyth- When I think of this, my mind just gets blown away with the possibilities with wedding photography. Doing a Photosyth of the church, the reception hall, during the ceremony (that would be a assistants job of coarse)…All they really have to do is open it up to Mac users and have it so all the person has to do is surf to a site or pop in a CF card or DVD and the Photosyth opens up……For it to really work you have to make sure that there is no pain in the rear programs to install…..maybe have it like those old Kodak CDs were the viewing software is on the media?
Scotts comment about the DX lenses not working on a D3….Yeah they do, the D3 even has a DX crop mode that turns on as soon as the camera detects a DX lens attached. The real question is why would you put a DX lens on a D3?
Scott Says:
26 August 2008 at 4:55 pm.
@David yes you’re right - I misspoke - I meant to say exactly what you concluded. Why on earth would you buy a full frame sensor camera and then use crop-sensor lenses on it?
Cycomachead Says:
26 August 2008 at 6:02 pm.
RE: the MLB comments.
It’s really interesting at the Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim stadium (stupid name!, but…) the rule is a 4 inch lens. Some P&S superzooms are bigger than that. My 17-85 for the 30D is just over 4 with a filter, but I brought it in successfully. Canon makes a 70-300 and a 100 f/2 which are under 4 inches.
The time I brought the 30D in I was sitting in a dugout suite right next to the photog’s area. For the first couple innings the LA times guy let me borrow his 70-200 2.8 which I own, but… It sucked to shoot through the net, but it was pretty darn invisible.
Makes no sense!! But it’s fun to get around it.
Stephen Cupp Says:
26 August 2008 at 6:08 pm.
I wonder when the show notes are going to be up. I want to check out the site of the week, but I don’t think they actually gave out the URL on the show. I think they just said it would be in the show notes.
Jordan Says:
27 August 2008 at 6:35 am.
Hey guys, still not seeing the show in I-tunes and not able to pull up the Pixel Coprs link… any suggestions?
Mark Says:
27 August 2008 at 9:35 am.
@Jordan: I got mine to download in iTunes. Here is how I did it.
-Delete the current one
-Minimize the TWIP category so you have the arrow pointing right
-Shift-Click on the the arrow and you should see the new show you can download.
Hope this helps.
Saul Says:
27 August 2008 at 11:31 am.
The Photrade link in the show notes here isn’t working. Would someone please fix that link?
Richard Vawter Says:
27 August 2008 at 1:04 pm.
TWIP #44 did not get downloaded to iTune correctly. The previous TWIP #43 was downloaded.
I went to pixelcops to get the mp3 version there, but when I click on the link it took me to a blank page.
Kim G Says:
27 August 2008 at 2:17 pm.
What ever happened to Frederick? Why isn’t he on the podcast anymore? Did he think his mission was complete once he converted Scott to Nikon? 
Scott Says:
27 August 2008 at 3:08 pm.
As has been stated above both in the post and in the comments, there were feed problems. They have been corrected. Refresh your browser. Unsubscribe and then re-subscribe to TWIP in iTunes. The correct show IS there and the mp3 link on the Pixelcorps.tv site IS working.
Scott Says:
27 August 2008 at 3:09 pm.
@Kim G Fred is always welcome on the show but he’s been tied up. Hopefully he’ll be back soon. The cast you can count on is Alex and Scott - everyone else comes in as they are available.
Jordan Says:
27 August 2008 at 5:45 pm.
It definitely worked! Nice trick I thought I was going to lose my mind if I didn’t get my TWiP fix this week!
Jon Says:
27 August 2008 at 7:44 pm.
As some one that listens on an ipod, and occasionally browses the web site I have a suggestion. It sort of comes to me after listening to a recent TWIM episode where they talked about how accessing a show or content has to be easy…
Every page, in the header for example, needs to contain an embedded audio player and minimal episode/podcast navigation (prev. & next). I was reading about this particular show and wanted to click play on the page and if it’s there I couldn’t find it.
gwbispoo Says:
28 August 2008 at 2:31 am.
We want Fred back! The shows are great and I will keep on downloading and listening religiously, but there just seems like a dynamic has been broken. We need Fred! We want Fred!
…..will we hopefully have Fred back soon?
Arun Says:
28 August 2008 at 5:08 am.
Just want to say that Photosnyth won’t work with VMware fusion as Aaron said he would do. It says on the photosynth website.
Still, great show guys.
JVL Says:
28 August 2008 at 8:13 am.
Another great show. There was a while when I was ALWAYS walking around with my SLR, and when I had a chance to go see a basketball game, or hockey game, last minute I definitely ran into problems. I don’t want to leave my gear in a car, a locker, or with a random security checkpoint person. The restriction? No “pro-level” photography gear or lenses over 4 inches.
I understand that there are people and organizations who make their money off of the images taken at sports games. But these people have, likely, much better, unobstructed, views than I do - as well as lenses even us more eager amateurs don’t own or want to bring to a game without buying the seat in front of us.
YES there are some crazy P&S’s that will do more “damage” than my 24-70mm f/2.8 (not allowed), and maybe even a few with a high enough MP count that they can be cropped down to a pretty clean image. It’s frustrating that I can’t even TAKE IT IN WITH ME - not use it, just carry it. Still, I’d like to have just the lens size restriction and go in with a DO lens, sit in the golds and see what I get. Maybe I need to listen to one of those spy novels to figure out how to get my camera in.
P.S. Alex, have any of those 8mm fisheye shots ready?
Tim Says:
29 August 2008 at 7:53 am.
Fantastic show this week. The interview with David was very interesting.
There was just one thing that annoyed me a little was the first thing Scott said when Alex mentioned PhotoSynth was Copyright.
I completely understand that Scott makes his living off the photos he takes, and he needs to protect his images so he can eat! That makes perfect sense. But when Scott said the (lack of control over) Copyright in PhotoSynth would stop professional photographers using it made no sense to me, it also annoyed me a little that Scott’s first thought seemed to be not what a cool idea it was, not how this could be used, but how the Copyright of his photos were going to be protected in this service.
If you are concerned with the Copyright implications of a service, don’t use it. Or, alternatively, don’t put up images you want to maintain control over. Don’t upload a photo you wish to sell or license.
I completely understand where Scott is coming from, but the constant talk of Copyright control is grating on me a little. If you are concerned that Creative Commons wont cover your work in a way you feel is necessary then don’t use it. If you think people might rip your images off Flickr and use them to make money, don’t put them on there, or put them on there at a much lower res. If you think you will loose control over any images put into PhotoSynth (and if this is unacceptable) then don’t put them in PhotoSynth.
Reading other posts it seems wired to be referring to Scott in the 3rd person, as he may actually read this
Looking forward to the next show!
Cheers, Tim
Scott Says:
29 August 2008 at 10:10 am.
@Tim you mischaracterized what I said. I said professional photographers MIGHT want to think about the concerns about Copyright. I will ALWAYS talk about Copyright on the show whenever it’s relevant in my opinion. If that annoys you, you’ve been forewarned. If it grates on you - you might want to listen when I am not on the show.
We’ve had the debate over Copyright already. It’s the law. Don’t like it - change it. I refuse to accept your position that I have to allow crooks, thieves and others of low moral character to steal - that’s right STEAL my work. And many photographers ARE worried about their rights. So I point out situations when they might want to be careful.
I see at as my job to point out the rules - and to catch and prosecute violators thereof. I understand that folks who want the right to steal from creatives don’t like that. Oh well.
JayMonster Says:
29 August 2008 at 11:43 am.
@Tim, part of what I think has made TWiP as popular as it is and as valuable a resource for the listeners is the divergent viewpoints which helps look at everything from all angles.
You got the ooohs and ahhhs from some, you got the “what can it be used for in the real world” angle and you got the (valid) concerns of a professional photographer. All of these points are valid and worthy of consideration, and it is only to our benefit as listeners that even the points that we may not have thought of are brought up, as that is the value of hearing somebody else’s point of view.
Now, that being said (not that I am going in a different direction), I can’t help but be amazed at how you justify this. As a software developer (by day) and photographer (by hobby), I realize I incur a certain amount of risk that people will steal or try to steal my work. However, my being willing to assume a certain amount of risk in doing so in no way provides another person the right to steal it.
In the example Scott has given some time back, he equated this to robbing my home or stealing my car. Whether or not you agree with the example (I know some have argued that “real property” has not been taken… only copied), the simple comparison is still just as much true. If I leave my house unlocked and the doors open… it is certainly unwise to a point of possibly downright stupid to do… however, my stupidity in doing so does not make it any less of a crime for you to steal from me. This sort of “justification” is just simply not valid.
(new subject) re: Sports and “professional equipment” - The funny thing about these rules (6″ inch or longer lenses is the “rule” at Yankee Stadium and Shea Stadium), is that with the crop factor… and if you go with a Diffractive Optics Lens (granted there aren’t many of them, and they are expensive) you can get much more zoom today in under the 6″ (or 4″ depending on stadium I guess) that you could in the past, and as lenses get better (and possibly as soon as people stop showing size envy with lenses), these “restrictions” will be almost useless (if they aren’t already)
Tim Says:
29 August 2008 at 6:39 pm.
I am sorry but I don’t think my I made my point clearly.
What I was trying to say if anyone is concerned with Copyright issues on a photo service, don’t put any photos on it you want to maintain control over without reading the fine print on the service. I in no way condone stealing of any one’s work, photography or otherwise. I understand that Scott was just pointing out a situation where people should be careful.
I am going to listen to the next episode, even if you are on it. Cause, well, I do love the show and I find your insight as a professional photography very interesting.
On the topic of lenses at sporting events, there would be a few (nasty) mirror reflective lenses over 400mm and under 6 inches long.
Cheers, Tim.
aaron Says:
2 September 2008 at 11:50 am.
Arun - I think it says they don’t recommend it or they claim it won’t work, but I’ve seen reports to the contrary. See last paragraph of this TUAW post: http://www.tuaw.com/2008/08/23/microsoft-were-not-cool-enough-for-mac-os-x/
Not had time for firsthand testing, though. 
