TWIP

28 July 2008

TWIP Podcast #40 - DNG

Posted by Scott under: Audio Podcast

Episode 40 is in the feed or you can download the MP3 at Pixelcorps.TV.

Host: Scott Bourne
Contributors: Aaron Mahler
Guest: Tom Hogarty of Adobe
Locations: San Francisco & Sweet Briar, Va

Intro Music by Scott Cannizzaro

Producer & Show Notes Author: Aaron Mahler - Twitter: halfpress

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TWIP is sponsored by Audible. For a free downloadable book visit www.audiblepodcast.com/twip

Don’t forget you can win a Drobo by linking to us. Details on the Contest page at TWIPPHOTO.COM!

TODAY’S SCENE

- Due to some sort of bizarre scheduling train wreck, Alex, Steve, Ron & Fred are all tied up today. As a result, Scott has me (Aaron, usually hovering in the background in my producer role) as his not-so-practiced panel member today. Here’s hoping I don’t sound like a complete tool for an hour.

- Our guest today is Tom Hogarty, Adobe’s Senior Product Manager for Lightroom and Camera Raw who will be giving us the inside story on DNG.

NEWS & DISCUSSION

- Aperture Nature Photography Workshops at Grand Tetons National Park - TWiP is working with Apple to sponsor the Aperture Nature Photography Workshops at four national parks over the next year. The first one will be at Grand Tetons National Park with four pros and four amateurs. You can win your way into participating by entering our upcoming contest (starts August 15th - links forthcoming). Other prizes also include a free year of service at Lynda.com, a Rotation360 photo bag from Think Thank Photo, a Drobo, $500 worth of photo books from Peachpit Press (they will also be publishing the photos at the end of the workshops), Lensbabies Lenses, Photrade.com lifetime membership, and more.

- Nik Silver Efex Pro Mini Review - Scott has a mini-review of Nik’s dynamite new B&W conversion plug-in at the blog. While not the cheapest software in the world, you definitely get you money’s worth. This is the first time Scott has seen a control for localized contrast and it’s amazingly versatile. You can download a free trial from their site, so give it a whirl!

- Panasonic has announced the Lumix DMC-FX 150 - at 14.7 megapixels, this is considered the highest resolving compact digital camera on the market. It’s built on their new Venus IV imaging processor, with a 28-100mm (35mm equivalent), F2.8 LEICA DC Len. One of the odd new features is a bracketing setting that will shoot color, monochromatic and sepia all at once. Seems a bizarre feature, honestly, but might be interesting to try.

- PDNOnline posts gallery and interview from dis-embedded Iraq war photographer - Embedded photographer, Zoriah Miller, published a photo from a suicide bomb aftermath that included dead US soldiers. While he did not release the photos until after the next of kin were notified and the angles of the shots prevented identification from being apparent anyway, his embedding credentials were revoked therefore limiting his coverage abilities. Since adding this story to our notes for inclusion in the show on Friday, I’ve seen this begin to pop up all over the web and through numerous news outlets over the weekend, so I think the story is garnering a great deal of attention. Situations like this re-ignite the debate over journalistic freedom in coverage of the war and I’m sorry Steve Simon wasn’t with us this week to offer his insights and opinions.

SITE OF THE WEEK

- Stuck In Customs - Photo site of Trey Ratcliff with a lot of emphasis on dramatic, often surrealistic, HDR images. The work is gorgeous and, due to numerous inquiries, he’s generously done some excellent tutorials on both HDR and texture photography. One somewhat unique aspect to this site is his use of the Creative Commons license which allows use of his photos for non-commercial uses without prior permission. Great stuff!

FLICKR CHALLENGE & POLLS

- We’re in week two of the current challenge: The Color Blue

- Starting in August or September, we’re going to change how the system works and allow the listeners to vote images up to a top ten set from which we’ll pick the final winners. We’ll announce this once the mechanism is in place.

- We’ve got videos to help you sign up for Flickr as well as videos showing how to upload to Flickr.

- Our TWiP Flickr group is over 5,800 Members with over 2,900 in the TWiP Flickr Critique group.

- Last week’s poll question: Do you use only lenses from your camera manufacturer? 62.2% said they only use the lenses made by the camera body maker while the remaining 37.8% branch out into other brands.

- This week’s poll: Do you think it’s wrong to digitally manipulate a photograph using post-processing software?
- Yes. Anything other than cropping and sharpening is NOT ok.
- Some things - equivalent to what you could do in a wet darkroom - are ok.
- No, I don’t care. If it started as a photo, I’m ok with anything.
- I don’t mind as long as it continues to be photo-realistic.

GUEST DISCUSSION: TOM HOGARTY

- Tom is the Senior Product Manager for Lightroom, Camera Raw and the DNG file format.

- DNG evolved in large part due to the constant introduction of new RAW file formats from the manufacturers. Virtually every new camera introduced a new format and the Adobe products, as a result, now support over 200 different RAW formats. DNG was born as a common interchange standard for these varied RAW files.

- Tom describes DNG as having three constituents: photographers (who have heavily embraced the format), software manufacturers (over 150 titles now) and camera manufacturers. Many of the newest makers (Pentax, Ricoh, Samsung for example) have adopted the standard inside the cameras. Camera and Nikon have not opted to adopt the format yet, but their RAW formats are clearly well handled by the Adobe products.

- Scott cites Nikon as possibly the least cooperative of the manufacturers, partly due to selling a RAW converter (CaptureNX) of their own. In a past iteration, they withheld some of the aspects of the NEF format, but this issue seems to be resolved and Tom describes that as more of a technical issue than Nikon being cagey about disclosure. Adobe’s relationship with Nikon and Canon both is apparently quite open and solid.

- Tom says he would love to see DNG supported within the Nikon and Canon cameras, but he understands the manufacturer positions. Currently the format is publicly documented but still in Adobe’s hands to maintain and modify. The manufacturers would likely prefer for DNG to be in the hands of a standards body (ISO, for instance) before committing. That said, Adobe does maintain the PDF and TIFF standards and has a good track record.

- Scott does point out that Adobe has done a great job of retaining backwards compatibility, a promise they made from the outset with Photoshop 1.0. Kodak PhotoCD, however, is an example of a format that was embraced by pros for some years and has now been virtually abandoned. A future version of Photoshop will be unable to deal with PhotoCD images due to Kodak no longer supporting the underlying technologies. As it is today, Mac users can only utilize the format on PowerPC or through the Rosetta settings on Intel Macs.

- What does NOT convert when you save a RAW image in the DNG format? Tom admits that there is always a chance that a camera manufacturer might hide a piece of metadata in their RAW format and leave it undocumented. However… if you’re not aware of it now, are you going to miss it in 50 years? Also, if you have the space to spare, you can opt to have the original RAW also stored within the DNG. This, however, is often not of any great value due to the flexibility of the DNG format.

- DNG conversion can be done in two ways: “convert to linear” and “preserve RAW image”. Conversion to linear will make the resulting DNG larger by expanding the color data to all three channels (R, G, B). Choosing the default “preserve RAW image” option keeps the data in the original mosaic arrangement the camera utilizes. Both are equally flexible in terms of white balance, etc., with the linear conversion just storing the image with one step of the display process already conducted (at the cost of increased file size). To be honest, the default is fine and most users will never need or want to even ponder this option.

- Tom points out that just viewing DNG in terms of archival use (making sure your image is readable in 50 years, for instance) ignores many of the short term benefits. For instance, Adobe has designed far more flexible -lossless- compression schemes not used by the camera makers. In this case, the conversion to DNG will often result in a smaller file than the original RAW but with absolutely NO loss in information. You’ve just saved yourself a significant amount of storage space while will also reducing the burden on long term storage needs. DNG eliminates the need for sidecar (XMP) files reducing a LOT of the clutter in your archives.

- For those wishing to get more familiar with DNG, go to http://www.adobe.com/products/dng/index.html. If you are not using Photoshop or Lightroom, you can download the free DNG converter that runs as a standalone application.

- So DNG could likely keep your images viable for decades to come. What, however, will be the physical way to store these images so they are still readable? At this point, none of us know. Tom rightly warns to be prepared to keep copying your images to new media formats over time to stay current. As bandwidth increases, though, we might find that storing images in “the cloud” will be viable.

LISTENER QUESTIONS

- Q: Listener Steve writes: Hey Guys! Could you please comment on the ways to make use of a tripod as it applies to capturing animals & birds in the wild. I use a Gitzo carbon fiber tripod with a Bogan ball head/Gitzo quick release plate on the camera. While in South America, I had many opportunities to photograph wildlife, but found the tripod/ballhead very awkward and difficult to go from horizontal to vertical with out changing the framing in the camera. Thanks. Steve

- A: This is definitely a Scott question. If you’re doing wildlife, you’re likely using a long lens and therefore a “collar”. In this situation, you don’t need to remove the camera from the tripod… simply rotate it within the collar. Beyond that, though, is the Wimberley Head. Even with the largest lenses, you can move the camera in virtually any direction with the touch of a finger. This is not a cheap device, but it’s a worthy investment for those serious about wildlife photography.

- Q: Listener Dan writes: I wanted to know what is AI SERVO & AI FOCUS on my 30D? And also what is the “spot” metering I believe that’s the name feature on the camera, in other words how does this affect my photography? Thanks for your advice, I listen to the podcast every week and I’m on Flickr because of you guys!!! Keep up the great work! Dan ( A rookie photographer excited to learn a little more each day.)

- A: The default mode of your camera is One-Shot AF where the focus locks when you half-press the shutter button. AI Servo causes the camera to track the motion of a moving subject and tries to predict where it will be when the shutter opens. AI Focus splits the difference, keeping the camera in One-shot mode but automatically switches to AI Servo if it detects a moving subject. Servo and Focus can really work out a lens, so I’ve found it best on the Ultrasonic (Canon) and Hypersonic (Sigma) lenses and sometimes iffy on the Sigmas with DC motors. These modes also use the beeper but not always the green focus lock light. Finally, spot metering is using a much narrower central portion (3.5%) of the view to meter, as opposed to the 20D’s center-weight that uses half or more the central area. This gives you a much more specific point on which to meter and is most useful when locking exposure, half-pressing and recomposing.

- Q: Listener Mark writes: Hey everybody, Thanks for keeping up the continued high quality on both the blog and the podcast. I’d like to make a suggestion for a future episode if I may… I recently switched to shooting my landscape photos in raw (.NEF) format but when I open them in CS3 I’m totally confused as to what would be the best options to take. Could you spend some time talking about this on the podcast please? Thanks - and keep up the good work. Mark

- A: Tom takes this question. Since you’re using Photoshop CS3, use Bridge to be able to look at your images as thumbnails (seeing more than one image at a time). The interface will work from the top left across and from top to bottom. Pointing out this layout is important because the controls are in the order that they are most sensibly used. So work your way through from left to right making adjustments progressively as you go. Scott adds an important point, too: hold off on sharpening until ALL other adjustments are made. Tom breaks down the various sharpening approaches which is far better heard than read, so I’m going to leave the rest to the podcast on this question.

- Q: Listener John writes: Question for your show: I recently switched to Mac when the new Mac Pros came out in January. Prior, I used Photoshop Elements 6.0 on PC to catalog my images and perform typcial edits. When I switched to PE 6 on the Mac, I learned that I lost all of the catalogs I created on the PC so it is prime time to determine my new photo organization scheme. A few months ago I started shooting only in raw with my Nikon D80. Two questions: 1) I noticed my D80 captures a Raw and JPG for every shot. What’s the purpose of the JPG? 2) Can you provide some help in demoing Aperture and Lightroom. I have trial versions of both v2.0 (Aperture being a short trial; Lightroom until the final release comes out.) I have no experience with either and limited time to put them through the paces. Assuming they are both great products and that personal preference would drive the decision, I’m hoping for a list of 10 things to try in each program to help me decide which would work best for me. Any suggestions on what to try or available resources to help me decide would be appreciated. (FYI - my name is spelled Michael.)

- A: You often have the option to store just RAW, just JPEG or a combination of both. For the sake of space, it often makes the most sense to store just the RAW saving the rest of the conversion process to your desktop. Embedding a larger JPEG, though, will often speed up the viewing process immediately out of the camera once the images are downloaded. Keep in mind, though, that the JPEG has the camera’s baked in interpretation of the image and the RAW might look significantly different (and potentially better). As far as testing the programs, we’re going to shy away from ten specific points. However, import the SAME batch of test images into both and spend time trying to achieve the same goals with both sets. Decide which program feels the most comfortable and you might find that one program will reveal more creative processes to you than another. Both applications are tremendously powerful and there is no wrong answer… go with what works best for you.

- Q: Listener Todd writes: I consider myself as a “get it completely done and move on” kind of guy. My question is: Do you guys take your personal photos in RAW and and keep them backed up that way? I use Aperture and I’m afraid that all the work I’ve done to tweak all these RAW family photos could be gone someday in the future because of a new file system, software that no longer supports the Pentax RAW files that I use, etc. I can’t see myself going back someday and re-editing RAW photos of Uncle Whatshisname! Thanks guys for your time! You’re simply the single best podcast out there! Keep the humor up! Todd

- A: Tom stores all of his DNG files as close as possible to the final editing decisions he made. The DNG format can contain a JPEG version of your final edit for quick preview in the future. Personally, I deliver my RAW images in DNG format to various clients because my edits in Lightroom will appear when they are first opened to see my interpretation of the photo, but the designer opening this file can roll back my edits and completely re-interpret the photo as they see fit. It’s the best of both worlds.

- Q: Listener Pedro writes: When you get offered money for the rights of one of your pictures, what is exactly what they want? The raw file? The file after color correction? Can I still, for example, participate in competitions like This Week in Photography bi-weekly photo challenge, with that picture? Or should I, after sale, just erase the picture and forget I took it. How much can I charge, or should I charge?

- A: It depends on your license, but the photographer often will retain ownership of the image. If you are selling an image with an agreement than nobody (yourself included) can ever use it again, you should charge accordingly since there will be no future revenue stream for that work. Some publications want to buy the edited image the way you presented it and others will want the RAW image to do with it as they please. These agreements are all made in the license and, again, charge according to the degree of flexibility you are granting them. Tom adds that http://updig.org can be a great resource for determining pricing guidelines.

- Q: Listener Damien writes: Guys, I love the podcasts, it makes the trip to and from work so much more enjoyable and educational. I have a question for you that really does affect probably 60% of my photography, I am a member of a volunteer rescue organization, the overalls and uniform that is worn is bright orange, and has reflective stripes all over. The issue I have is the flash back from the stripes, I cannot up the ISO and lower shutter speed due to the fact that the “active” photos are very busy, people cant stand still during a rescue. How can I over come the reflective tape issue, its the same for a lot of road signs at night when using a flash. you can see some day shots on my site, during the day it is not an issue unless I use fill flash, its mostly a night issue. Cheers, Damien K

- A: What is most likely happening here is that the bright reflection of light is fooling the E-TTL metering system in your flash. A personal example of this problem can be seen here in some of my own images: http://www.halfpress.com/galleries/france-wedding/source/img_2913.html. In the podcast I describe a bit about how E-TTL metering works (your flash is actually firing twice, though it looks like a single flash) and why this might be happening. In a nutshell, though, this might boil down to being a manual setting situation. You can work it out mathematically, but some experimentation might yield a decent set of general settings to use in most situations and you’ll learn to use those when faced with this kind of scenario (or at least a good sense of what to adjust on the fly to get the images). This is one of the powers of digital photography with its ability to allow you to immediately evaluate settings and react accordingly rather than discovering it in the dark room or when the prints come back from the lab. If you’ve not been there already, head to http://strobist.blogspot.com for some of the best information you can find anywhere on shooting with strobes.

AUDIBLE PICK OF THE WEEK

- The Pillars of the Earth by Ken Follett

- This is one of my favorite novels from years past. I read the print version when I was in, I think, 8th grade. Millions of copies exist in countless languages around the world, so there is little doubt about the book’s overall popularity. In a coming week, I will recommend another book related with this one… but you’ll have to stay tuned.

- Even if you have read this book, the narration of it is positively fantastic. I think anyone who has been a fan of the book in the past will thoroughly appreciate revisiting it in audible book form.

- From the Audible.com site: The Pillars of the Earth tells the story of Philip, prior of Kingsbridge, a devout and resourceful monk driven to build the greatest Gothic cathedral the world has known…of Tom, the mason who becomes his architect - a man divided in his soul…of the beautiful, elusive Lady Aliena, haunted by a secret shame…and of a struggle between good and evil that will turn church against state, and brother against brother. A spellbinding epic tale of ambition, anarchy, and absolute power set against the sprawling medieval canvas of 12th-century England, this is Ken Follett’s historical masterpiece.

COMING NEXT & BETWEEN WEEKS

- We have a number of things in the works including some theme shows and an upcoming episode with a member of a Canon service center discussing the kinds of problems they frequently encounter. Summer is a challenging time for scheduling guests, so for the time being, a lot of episode topics will just have to be a surprise when you download it.

TIP OF THE WEEK

- Our tip this week comes from Jared, a TWiP listener:

- I have a tip for our Flickr users. After joining Flickr, my contact list grew slowly. Now that I’ve got a fairly consistent and growing daily-page-view count. I’ve noticed that my older photos have very low View counts. It’s time to recycle those old photos by changing the upload date and bringing them to the front of your photostream. On the photo’s page, click (Edit) next to Taken on . Click the Date Posted tab, and edit the date and time to be newer than any other photo in your photostream. Now your old photos will get exposure that was not possible when you first joined Flickr. Love the show guys! Jerad Civisi (suh-VEE-see)

WRAP-UP

- Tom can be found at http://blogs.adobe.com/lightroomjournal/.

- Scott can be found at http://scottbourne.com. Twitter: scottbourne

- Aaron can be found on his blog (which is painfully in need of updates… soon) and via Twitter: halfpress

Send your thoughts, suggestions and questions to: twip at pixelcorps.com

Story ideas and other items of webly interest can be submitted via the TWiP Ideas Del.icio.us bookmarks

Share photos with your fellow TWiP listeners through the TWiP Flickr Feed

Submit your photos for “ruthless compassion” through our TWiP critiques forum.

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