30 May 2008
TWIP Podcast Episode #29 - Q&A
Posted by
Scott under:
Audio Podcast
Episode 29 is available in the feed and at Pixelcorps.TV.
This week it’s all Q and A. We talk about traveling with photo gear, pro lenses and ISO, and Sports Illustrated models hawking G9’s.
Hosts: Scott Bourne & Alex Lindsay
Contributors: Steve Simon, Fred Johnson, Aaron Mahler
Locations: San Francisco, New York & Sweet Briar, Va
Intro Music by Scott Cannizzaro
Producer & Show Notes Author: Aaron Mahler - Twitter: halfpress
Bandwidth for This Week in Photography is provided by Cachefly.
TWIP is sponsored by Audible. For a free downloadable book visit www.audiblepodcast.com/twip
Hold on folks, lots of laughter ahead as we jump into our second monthly all-listener-submitted Q&A episode!
NEWS & DISCUSSION
- Aperture fixes and expanded RAW support in OS X 10.5.3 update. This update fixes compatibility issues with Aperture 2.0 and Time Machine. Adds RAW support for 12 more cameras and backs including the Nikon D60 and several Hasselblad and Leaf models. Alex suggests you hold off on the 10.5.3 update for a bit, though, until some non-Aperture issues being griped about regarding CS3 are put to rest. It all depends on your needs, really. Detailed release notes for the upgrade can be found here. Personally, I can confirm that Spaces and Lightroom 2.0 Beta (possibly also 1.4) are NOT happy with one another. No crashes… just irritating spaces flipping.
- New Epson Wide Format Printers Announced. These include the Stylus Pro 7990 and 9900 which are 24″ and 44″ versions of the same model. UltraChrome HDR ink and the printers accept 11 cartridges with automatic switching of matte and photo black inks. Inks: photo black, light black and light light black - plus cyan, light cyan, vivid magenta, vivid light magenta, yellow, orange, and green, along with matte black. A 13″ Stylus Pro 2880 has also been announced and are more in the average serious home printer’s price range. Eleven freakin’ cartridges… at normal extortionist ink prices? Scott points out, though, that one can ignore the built-in warnings prepping you to swap out a dying cartridge and run them flat dry, even if they die out in the middle of a print. Eeek out a few more prints… it’ll pay off. Alex sticks with using a digital photo frame now. Paper is DTM.
- Watch out… more Nikon D3 11×17 wallet-size snarks from Scott.
- The Microsoft 216 Megapixel Camera: a special camera used for capturing the orthogonal data for Virtual Earth (their competitor to Google Earth). This sucker produces 14,430 x 9,420 pixel images using 13 CCD’s, sending them through 14 CPU’s. No, this is NOT a consumer camera in any capacity. It appeals to the photo geeks, though, so it has to mentioned.
- G9 pr0n. A Flickr gallery of Sports Illustrated models holding Canon G9’s. So who, exactly, is behind this gallery? None of us are sure. Is it news? No… but come on… how could we not post this? Some of the nicest photos we’ve seen of the G9, even if those mostly naked ladies keep getting in the way and blocking the light.
- Nikon has released updates to ViewNX and Transfer. The update includes support for Mac OS X version 10.5.2 (Leopard), support for optional Picture Controls has been added as well as numerous other small and large fixes and additions.
- Redesigned Camera Muffle ships in July. This is a sound muffling enclosure for Canon and Nikon digital SLRs. The new model includes improved sound reduction, larger rear LCD window, tripod mount access, expanded compartment opening and should cost in the vicinity of US$125 - US$135. Who needs this? People shooting on movie sets are big users since the director will beat you to death if you get shutter sounds in the audio. Possibly some wildlife photographers, wedding photographers or anybody with a 20D who feels like they are using a machine gun in quiet places.
- Cue more 1Ds Mark III vs. D3 snarks.
SITE OF THE WEEK
- Panoramio (pronounced PAN-O-RAM-EE-OH).
- This is the site where geotagged photos are collected for possible inclusion in the Panoramio layers of Google Earth.
- You can upload already tagged photos or enter the location information interactively when you upload them to the site.
- They also appear now in the regular web-based Google Maps since the addition of the “More” layers.
- Upload your geotagged photos to the site and, on about a monthly cycle, they are reviewed and (barring violations of terms or copyright) are then merged into the Google Maps/Earth data layers. Visitors who are in that area of the map in either program and with the layer turned on will see thumbnails or blue dots marking the location.
- Click on the blue dots and the larger image will appear right on the map.
- The site is free and has a very single-purpose, light-weight Flickr’ish feel to it. They run contests quite often as well.
- I’ll pimp a few personal shots are are now in the Google Maps queue for future visibility: http://www.panoramio.com/photo/9490790
FLICKR CHALLENGE STATUS & CURRENT POLL
- We’re now in week two of: Adventure.
- Don’t get yourself eaten by lions fulfilling this one. We disclaim all responsibility. Alex tells a rather amusing story about a friend shooting in crocodile infested waters. It’s a clear demonstration of gear geek priorities worth hearing.
- We’re giving away at least two books this time around, but check the blog for details as the contest progresses.
- We’ve got videos to help you sign up for Flickr as well as videos showing how to upload to Flickr.
- Our TWiP Flickr group is over 4,700 Members with over 2,000 in the TWiP Flickr Critique group.
- Our previous poll asked whether you describe yourself as an amateur or professional photographer. The answers were broken down mostly on the basis of amount of income (if any) derived. In a nutshell, 81.9% of you claim to be amateurs, while only 3% are full-time professionals. 13.4% earn between one and 25% of their income through photography.
- Last Week’s Poll Results: Have you ever paid to attend a photo workshop?
- 73.9 have not paid for a photo workshop
- 26.1 have paid for one
- This week’s poll: How Old Are You?. Shouldn’t be hard to do folks… hop to it.
LISTENER QUESTIONS
- Q: Seyman Stern writes: I’ve just become a regular listener via iTunes and I’ve heard you talk about Lightroom. I have Lightroom 1 - barely used it and now downloaded the Beta.
I’m a bit puzzled about how to “save” photos after importing them, and how to get rid of a batch of imported pix after I’ve worked on them. This does not have the conventional “save” method. Also if I delete a pix imported into Lightroom, does that also delete the pix in the MY Pictures file - the main storage area for all of my pictures. Your comments would be most appreciated.
- A: Fred takes the first shot at this one. Lightroom (and Aperture and even iPhoto as well) is not altering your original photograph… it is simply recording a list of instructions to apply to your view of the image throughout the process. These instructions constitute a small amount of storage and are being re-applied “on the fly” whenever you view the image in Lightroom. As a result, there is no traditional need to “save” since the instructions are being recorded constantly to the Lightroom database.
- A: The only time you produce a new image that comes close to the concept of “saving” is during export. This is the stage where the instructions you’ve been playing through your edits are “baked” into a new copy of the image and saved as a file in the format and with the name of your choosing. This will be the first instance where a new image file appears and takes of the requisite space on your hard drive.
- A: The wonderful thing about this is not only the preservation of your original image, but the ability to make numbers “virtual” copies of your edits, all of which take little space on your drive and are constantly saved as they happen. Keep in mind that your choice to delete an image is posed to you as a choice between deleting the edits or actually removing the REAL file (permanent).
——
- Q: Steve Vansak writes: For the upcoming Q and A show, I’d like to hear some tips on traveling with photography equipment. I’ll be flying with such gear for the first time in the next few weeks and I’m wondering what I can expect from Airport Security. I was also curious as to whether it’s possible to rent tripods as opposed to traveling with them? Anyway, any kind of info on this subject would be appreciated. Thanks for such an informative and fun show / blog!! Steve Vansak of Gary, IN.
- A: Scott: National vs. international travel will vastly affect your situation. First class gives you lots of latitude, but that’s for “Scotty Warbucks”.
Watch the weight of your carry-on. Go an ounce over and they penalize the crap out of you with additional feels. It’s getting draconian.
- A: Newsflash: Alex wears pants on the plane!
- A: Alex travels with a Scottevest which is covered in pockets. He jams all the extra gear in the pockets but carries a bag in one of the pockets. Because he’s wearing the vest and it’s not a “bag”, per se, he gets through. Once through security, he puts all the stuff into the bag he was carrying in one of the pockets and uses it as a carry-on. Cheater.
- A: Heathrow airport is living hell for photographers.
- A: Make sure your gear is insured and plan for disaster. You’ll be pleasantly surprised when get through just fine. Scott, however, FedEx’s his gear ahead of him.
- A: Steve grabs one of those 99-cent Ikea bags and tucks it into his Think Tank roller bag. He can transfer items to the Ikea bag and if he’s forced to check something he was planning to carry on.
- A: Fred has heard that, if you carry a LEGALLY REGISTERED firearm in your bag, the TSA will end up guarding it all with their lives due to security requirements. The theory here is to carry a gun with your camera gear and the full weight of the TSA will become your anti-theft deterrent. (editorial comment: I’m sure they will look after your gear while you’re sent to Gitmo for doing this, too… but hey… maybe this is true).
- A: Alex has a ton of mesh zipper bags that allow him to break all his gear up into groups. Batteries, etc., all grouped. It’s a quick way to modularly rearrange items and move sets of things from one bag to another if forced to do so during the security check. Be careful, though, with how you group things. Large blocks of batteries or similar items can look pretty scary in the security X-Ray and might lead to delays or judicious use of a rubber glove and jelly.
——
- Q: Nick Hedberg writes: Could you please discuss the difference (if any) between 2nd curtain shutter and rear shutter sync?
- A: Basically, 2nd curtain and rear shutter sync are two names for the same thing. Fundamentally, 1st and 2nd curtain are the two choices in flash/strobe/speedlight photography on capable DSLRs and higher end point and shoots. It allows you to select whether to have the flash fire at the initial opening of the shutter or near the close of the shutter. 1st curtain sync will tend to freeze your moving subject in the frame. 2nd (rear) curtain sync will freeze it more toward the end and often create a blur streaking BEHIND the subject suggesting motion. It’s a cool effect.
- A: Uh oh. My mention of a Canon 580EX II strobing effect leads to Fred getting to lay another D3 ISO smackdown on Scott.
——
- Q: Greg Perisho writes: I listened to your discussions on the high ISO digital SLRs now available. So I’m wondering - do high ISO SLRs eliminate the need to pro lenses (f2.8 zooms specifically)? There seem to be many highly rated prosumer zoom lenses out (f3.5 - f5.6) that are sharp and have high IQ. But in the past you needed f2.8 to capture some types of shots like high speed race cars and inside sports or concerts. But with usable ISO in the 3200-6400 range, should I save money on lenses and put it in the camera instead?
- A: Scott: NO.
- A: Clarity, image brightness in the viewfinder, depth of field, build quality, etc. These are all factors in a lens that, for the most part, are worth the investment. The “sweet spot” of sharpness in a lens tends to be near the middle, so lenses with wider apertures will reach a clarity sweet spot at a larger aperture (requiring less light and lower ISO) than ones starting at a smaller (higher) f-number.
- A: As Steve points out, lens costs are one of the things in the photography that often follow the rule of “the more you spend, the better the quality”. That’s not always true in the frequently overpriced world of camera gear… but it does tend to hold true for lenses with very few exceptions. As I’ve said before (Aaron), lenses are your investment in camera gear and as long as you are buying models that will move across bodies as you upgrade, you’re making a pretty wise purchasing decision.
- A: Scott points out that lens quality has improved in recent years no matter what the price point. Lesser priced lenses aren’t trashy by ANY means… but there is a 1:1 correlation in price vs. quality on lenses much of the time.
- A: Make some of your purchasing decision on the basis of your intended use. Shooting for the web? You’ve got a lot more latitude. Large prints? Up the lens quality.
——
- Q: Rikki Bruce writes: Hi guys, love the show but Ive got a quick question I hope you can help with. I’d always been under the assumption that the lower the ISO number the higher the quality of image (less grain etc) you would get with your digitial SLR, but I’ve also recently heard that by using the lowest ISO setting on your cam can give you dull colors, can you tell me if thats true and if it is - why is that the case? Thanks folks, really loving the show! Rikki - Glasgow, Scotland, UK
- A: Nope. Low ISO is not always better depending on the camera. Every sensor has an ISO sweet spot in terms of efficiency. For some Canons, for instance, that tends to be ISO 200 and ISO 100 for others. Nikon, for instance, starts out at ISO 200 on the D3 and reserves a non-numeric indicator for ISOs that are lower. This tends to suggest that 200 is the norm for that sensor and anything under is taking a special accommodation in the camera’s image processing algorithms. In purely technical terms, digital sensors have a single true ISO and any film-correlating ISO number is a simulation that relates directly to gain applied to that sensor.
- A: Scott, for instance, got poorer results at ISO 100 on his four year old 1D Mark II than its “native” ISO 200.
- A: This is not something to obsess about.
Fred strikes again at Scott on the D3 resolution.
——
- Q: Todd Mizomi writes: In video production we are taught to zoom in all the way to the eyes, get our focus, then zoom out and recompose the shot. Does this apply to still photography as well? Should I zoom in to the eyes, lock focus, then zoom out and recompose or should we set the zoom length first, tilt up to focus on the eyes, then recompose the shot without changing the zoom length?
- A: Fred’s approach is to compose the shot, target the idea and focus last before taking the shot. Technically, most lenses will work fine in terms of retaining focus across the zoom. So, yes, you can zoom in on the eyes, lock focus, then zoom out to frame the shot. That’s a completely legitimate approach.
- A: Watch out, Alex has bat-focus. click-click-click-click-click. The dude has radar.
- A: Steve brings up the use of continuous-focus features on many of the DSLRs. This allows you to associate focus with a moving object while the camera tracks and predicts where the focal point will be at the time the shutter opens. Some Nikons, for instance, have a special extra button for use of this feature. With most of the Canons, it’s a menu selection for the behavior and is associated with the half-press of the shutter button.
——
- Q: Fred Caldwell writes: I have a question about the histogram display. I understand how to read it left to right, but my question is about the top. What does it mean when information goes beyond “clipped” at the top? For example, seeing a histogram with a nice bell curve - exposed to the right, but the top of the bell curve is cut off… goes beyond the top of the histogram screen. Would you ming helping me understand how to interpret this? Thank you. Fred Caldwell
- A: Not a problem. The concern is when indicators bunch up on the far left or right side. In those cases, you’re crushing the dynamic range. A hard push to the left, for instance, will create very noisy or nasty shadows if you try to open it up in editing. Even in RAW, pushing it way too hard to the right will sacrifice highlight detail (though the high end is more forgiving).
- A: Keep in mind that every shot does not need to be the bell curve in the histogram display. Sure, this is often nice… but sometimes the composition benefits artistically from blown highlights or black shadows. Don’t base every shot on the histogram from a creative standpoint.
AUDIBLE PICK OF THE WEEK
- Neverwhere by Neil Gaiman.
- This highly entertaining story - best described as a fairytale for grown-ups - is superbly narrated by the author himself including exotic music segments between section. It’s VERY atmospheric, quite amusing in parts and a extremely engaging. It’s a pretty dark story in parts, so be warned.
- Official description from Audible.com: Richard Mayhew is an unassuming young businessman living in London, with a dull job and a pretty but shrewish fiancée. Then one night he stumbles upon a girl lying on the sidewalk, bleeding. He stops to help her, and his life is changed forever. Soon he finds himself living in a London most people would never have dreamed of: a city of monsters and saints, murderers and angels. It is a world that exists entirely in a subterranean labyrinth of sewer canals and abandoned subway stations. And it is the home of Door, the girl whom Richard rescued, and whom, if he is ever to return home, he must now help in her mission to preserve this strange underworld kingdom from a mysterious figure determined to destroy it.
- TWIP is sponsored by Audible. For a free downloadable book visit www.audiblepodcast.com/twip
SPONSORSHIP NEWS
- We’re proud to announce that starting this Sunday, lensbabies.com is on board with TWiP. Please check them out!
COMING NEXT WEEK
- We don’t know. Stand by… we’ve got some stuff brewing.
COMING BETWEEN WEEKS
- Ron Brinkman’s Gear Bag video. Wait for it… should be quite interesting.
TIP OF THE WEEK
- I get a little esoteric with this geologging tip, so bear with me.
- Most dataloggers do NOT display the time due to a lack of a screen. This is true of the highly recommended AMOD AGL-3080 logger that I’ve mentioned in past shows. This can somewhat complicate making sure you camera is properly synchronized. If you’re within tens of seconds or even minutes while on foot… no big deal. My problem a few weeks ago was shooting from a helicopter with two cameras and traveling about 100 MPH. 30 seconds fast on one camera and 20 seconds slow on the other had my shots mismatched all over the board and it took me a while to determine the proper offset to apply in the geocoding software.
- An idea that dawned on me was to have my camera ready before turning on the AMOD. Hold it in your hand, turn it on and wait for the green light to start blinking indicating it has a lock. At this moment, shoot a photo of the AMOD in your hand. Why? It serves as a bookmark, so to speak, in your collection of photos and also indicates within a few moments when your logger started recording. Matching this photo with the first entries of your logger will give you a synchronized point from which to determine the offset for the whole rest of your logged shoot.
- On a side note, I’m planning to write a little OS X application soon to automate this process. Drag in your log, drag in that “bookmark” photo and the magic is all done for you. It might also employ use of the AMOD’s little “flag” button for more precise correlation, thus eliminating the need to shoot the picture from a cold start of the GPS. Now, if I could find some time to write it…
- Scott offers a related photo-bookmarking-type tip: When covering sporting events, shoot pictures of the scoreboard throughout the game to mark time. Any editors using the photos afterward need only follow your shots in chronological order to correlate them with the progress of the game.
WRAP-UP
- Scott’s photography can be found at http://avianstock.com. Twitter: scottbourne
- Alex can be found at http://www.pixelcorps.com and http://www.pixelcorps.tv. Twitter: alexlindsay
- Steve Simon can be found at http://www.stevesimonphoto.com.
- Fred can be found at his blog. Twitter: fvjohnson
- Aaron can be found on his blog (which is painfully in need of updates… soon) and via Twitter: halfpress
Send your thoughts, suggestions and questions to: twip at pixelcorps.com
Story ideas and other items of webly interest can be submitted via the TWiP Ideas Del.icio.us bookmarks
Share photos with your fellow TWiP listeners through the TWiP Flickr Feed
Submit your photos for “ruthless compassion” through our TWiP critiques forum. ![]()
18 Comments so far...
subcorpus Says:
31 May 2008 at 10:48 am.
itunes is downloading the episode for me now …
i always love the Q&A shows ….
great work guys …
Bill Says:
1 June 2008 at 1:41 am.
I love all the great information I receive from TWIP, but I have one small criticism: on this Q&A show, I think you could have answered 40 questions if it weren’t for all of the rat-holes. I don’t mean that TWIP should be all business and no play, but I think the scales tipped too heavily on the play side in this episode. I appreciate your sense of humor, but for a photography podcast, I appreciate photography information even more.
Even with that complain, I really appreciate all that you do. The web site has valuable articles, and the podcasts deliver great advice.
Rikki Says:
1 June 2008 at 5:14 am.
Loved this episode, bat focus doesnt appear to work on Fuji but I’ll keep trying
Oh and thanks for mentioning the ISO question I sent in asking if using 100 ISO would always give better pics than 200 or above. I thought it was just my own eyes that noticed things were actually worse!
Lastly, I think the MP3 file on the PixelCorps site is FUBAR’d, its got clicks and pops all the way through when playing back.
Keep up the good work!
Rikki
Craig Says:
1 June 2008 at 6:29 am.
sometimes i have troubles downloading the episodes. it will only download part of it.
i find that unsubscribing then resubscribing again seems to work.
Bob Krueger Says:
1 June 2008 at 12:39 pm.
Can you guys give a link to the digital picture frame that Alex mentioned at the top of this show? I did a Google search for what I thought I heard but got no meaningful hits, and the show notes aren’t up yet.
Thanks!
Bob Krueger
jeff baird Says:
2 June 2008 at 7:43 am.
When you compare the 1Ds Mark III to the D3 consider including the G9 to show that sensitivity is more important than megapixels. Go ahead and leave the SI Models …
Johnny Sewell Says:
2 June 2008 at 11:24 am.
Thanks for the show. You guys are doing a great job. And in the tradition of NAPP TV there is much good fun on each episode…
Comment on the first question on Lightroom, Fred mentioned that iPhoto & Aperture work in a similar way to LR. I’ve not used Aperture, but I also have LR work with the photos in a folder structure inside the Pictures folder. It seems to me when I bring the photos into iPhoto (the only time I do this is to make a book at Apple…Apple makes it EASY to do, hint) there are duplicate copies of the images made in the iPhoto Library. Is there a way to let iPhoto just work with the images already in the folder structure?
My Lightroom question… With an iMac 24 at home and a MacBook Pro on the road (I’m a pilot and I am on the road a lot) what is the best way to sync photos and / or catalogs? Since there is a larger hard drive hooked to the iMac with over 100 gig and growing, I don’t always have all of those on the MacBook Pro. But I have 50-75 at any given time and do some adjustments or keywording, etc when I have a chance on the road as well as importing new images that I might get to shoot while on trips. So Fred, a video on how best to sync between computers please?
Thanks,
Johnny
Canon 5D, 20D (envy that 1Ds Mark III) and the D3
robert Says:
2 June 2008 at 2:01 pm.
hi guys,
was it just me or were there a lot of popps in the audio? sounded like someone was hitting a mic.
Carl Says:
2 June 2008 at 5:51 pm.
Fred’s comment about carrying a gun so TSA will guard your gear gives too much credit to our security. I transported a shotgun from CA to SC. It was in a large plastic shotgun case. It was flagged with all kinds of stickers by security and I was told that I would have to pick it up in a different location than my other bags. When I arrived in SC, I went to get my shot gun first because I was worried about it. They didn’t have it, couldn’t find it and didn’t know what happened. We walked out to the regular baggage area and there is was going around and around on the carrosel. Nobody seemed to notice the LARGE stickers with instructions on them.
I wouldn’t count on that strategy to make sure my expensive camera gear was taken care of. Ship it insured ahead of time. Call before you leave and make sure it arrived in good condition and is waiting for you. Then fly there with peace of mind.
Brett Says:
4 June 2008 at 9:38 am.
FYI
an interesting blog with lots of info & tips about traveling with photo gear is:
Flying with Fish
http://flyingwithfish.blogspot.com/
also, another more concise resource here, including updated summary on Heathrow’s restrictions
http://www.bobatkins.com/photography/carry_on_restrictions.html
and finally, some of guys over on TWIT were making fun of this site a while ago (I think Scott included :-), but it does have some insight into some of the reasoning behind various TSA security procedures - e.g. the reasons behind the 3-1-1 policy (see article on the Science behind 3-1-1 - scary stuff!)
Although not specifically photo-related, I think it’s useful reading for frequent travellers
Brett Says:
4 June 2008 at 9:40 am.
oops, sorry I forgot to include the URL for the TSA blog I mentioned above
http://www.tsa.gov/blog/index.shtm
Tom Says:
4 June 2008 at 12:12 pm.
Guys, forget about the comments regarding the show has too many ‘rat holes’ I love it. You guys could talk about anything and I’d listen to it. Having the show be about photography is just a bonus.
I’m now to the point that I have to listen to the show twice to get all the information. I’m laughing too hard the first time around to hear it all.
Keep up the great work.
I see in the blog about buying glass. I’m what I call a low end shooter (Rebel XT) I have the kit lens and the Canon 70 - 300mm IS lens.
I’m now looking to upgrade my kit lens with something in the $500 CA range. Canon has the EF-S 17-85mm IS USM Lens while Sigma has their new 18-125mm F3.8-5.6 DC OS HSM. Both are in my price rage… which is the better bag for the buck?
Sorry Scott, my wife has a problem with me mortgaging the house for ‘L’ lenses.
Perhaps you could spend some time discussing on a future show the best way to spend limited funds for hobby shooters like me.
Thanks again and don’t change a thing on the show.
Tom
Josh Says:
10 June 2008 at 5:57 am.
Just finished listening to the show, enjoyed it very much and found it very informative. You still have far fewer ratholes than MacBreak Weekly, so you’re doing fine.
Another photography podcast I enjoy listening to is the Image Doctors, from Nikonians.org. I mention this here because the latest episode (#67) is all about techniques for using the AF-ON button that was mentioned in this episode of TWIP. Clearly, it’s going to be Nikon-specific, but I’m sure their advice can be adapted for Canon and others.
Image Doctors Episode #67:
http://www.nikonians-podcasts.org/NPC-ID-2008-05-29.mp3
edmund Says:
11 June 2008 at 12:05 am.
Great show as usual. Alex is a funny guy.
JayMonster Says:
18 June 2008 at 11:18 am.
Forgot to add this earlier, the program Alex was talking about is Clear. The cost is $129 ($100 for the Clear card, and $28 for the TSA “vetting” fee).
Information can be found at
Aidan Says:
9 September 2008 at 4:06 am.
working my way back through the archives as have only recently started listening. Saw the title and thought you’d be talking about photographing bats. Got some good pics in the past but have been told since shouldn’t use flash.
Ah well great show, keep up the good work.
thanks





